Course:ETEC512/2012WT1
Welcome to The Great Debate of ETEC512!
Now that you have been thoroughly introduced to the theories of Piaget and Vygotsky, we are going to spend this week delving even further into these theories by comparing and contrasting them. These theories continue to be highly influential pedagogical perspectives. As such, it is important to have a very good grasp on the major and more subtler aspects of these theories. This will enable you to apply them more effectively in your own teaching and learning.
In addition to the material covered in the previous module (on Piaget (VPN access required), on Vygotsky), there is one new reading and two new videos to consider for this debate:
Reading: All things being equal: the two roads of Piaget and Vygotsky
Video 1: Vygotsky Vs. Piaget
Video 2: Piaget Vygotsky video
Everyone whose first name starts with the letters A thru L will be on Team Piaget; everyone whose first name starts with letters M thru Z will be on Team Vygotsky.
Now on to the debate!
What role does egocentric speech play in development ?
| Piaget | Vygotsky |
|---|---|
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Egocentric speech is a necessary part of the sensorimotor developmental stage when children are first beginning to attempt to make sounds, and put together words, and becomes even more crucial at later stages for children to vocalize their thoughts. Egocentric speech is very closely tied to egotism. Because children in the preoperations stage do not consider other points of view, their only reference is their own thoughts, and to better be able to formalize and understand these thoughts they need to say them out loud. |
Egocentric speech is not a necessary part of development. Children are already social beings, they do not learn to be social by observing adults. Rather the action of speaking aloud is due to the fact they have not learned to transform their external thoughts into internal thoughts. While egocentric speech is important to development, it is not crucial, and under Piaget theories, simply misunderstood. In a child'd development, language develops from the external into the internal. Children learn this through social cues and the influence their social surroundings have on their development. Egocentric speech (the type of talk observed in young children that isn’t necessarily being directed towards anyone) is not an actual stage in the development of social speech. It does not go A-B-C as Piaget envisions the movement from autistic speech to egocentric speech to social speech. This type of practice seen in young children is merely a transition step in their understanding’s development. It’s like the training wheels that help to develop the skills of balance and movement control. When you see changes in a child’s ability to use social speech this is a direct result of social interaction. Vygotsky would definitely agree that egocentric speech is a necessary and inevitable “scaffold” of language learning. This is an important stage in development but I believe Vygotsky called it “private” speech because “egocentric” belongs to Piaget.
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What role does social interaction play in cognitive development ?
| Piaget | Vygotsky |
|---|---|
| The social interaction of a child may cause them to develop at a slightly faster or slower rate depending on the social interaction occurring. It can assist in a child moving from egocentricism to being less egocentric, however, a child can still only perform within their developmental stage. If they are in the preoperations stage they will not be able to jump to the concrete operations stage simply because of social interaction in the environment. Clearly social interaction is not a key determinent to the developmental process.
Though Piaget does not dismiss the importance of social interaction he states that there is more to cognitive development. “There is an evolutionary, organism-centered aspect to all knowledge development.” The process of accommodation and assimilation is based on genetics, on the organism adapting to a new knowledge structure. (Piaget) The aid of a teacher or more knowledgeable peer is not going to cause shifts between stages. The capacity for abstract problem solving is not going to be available to a 4 year old just by the support of a teacher or older sibling. The “zone of proximal development” has some reasonable constraints that can be guided by the recognition of the developmental stages. |
Vygotsky is known for his social development theory, he more so than Piaget emphasized the role of social interaction in the development of cognition. Social interaction is the main source of cognitive development. Cognitive change result form using cultural tools in social interaction and from internalizing and mentally transforming these interactions. According to Vygotsky, knowledge construction is the result of interaction with a skillful tutor, and cognitive development occurs when the novice learner receives instruction and assistance from an expert learner. Vygotsky would argue that a student who has been confronted with a problem they cannot solve is in their “zone of proximal development.” With the aid of a teacher (or a more knowledgeable peer) the student will receive the support necessary to solve the problem. As a result of this scaffolding the student will be able to complete a similar task in the future without assistance. Thus, according to Vygotsky, cognitive development is the result of collaboration and social interaction with more knowledgeable partners. Social interaction plays a major role in cognitive development according to Vygotsky. Language is learned through socially mediated interaction with others. We learn language, the good and bad words, through social interaction with others and listening to how they use the language. |
Is developmental change qualitative, quantitative, or both?
| Piaget | Vygotsky |
|---|---|
| Development is primarily quantitative. A child at a specific age should be able to perform the same functions, and have the same limitations regardless of their background; as such this development would be quantitatively measured by age. This will change, however, for extreme scenarios where a child progresses through the developmental stages at a slower rate. This is why for the most part development can be quantitatively measured, but qualitative aspects should be considered as well. |
Development is both qualitative and quantitative in nature and occurs through complementary paths of invariant genetic change and variant cultural interactions. Vygotsky would argue that it is not the amount of change that takes place that contributes to development, but it is the quality of the change that leads to a deeper complexity of thought and understanding. While a quantitative measurement can be seen as a child's thinking transforms from syncretic to complexive, it is the difference in the quality of these phases that show that the child has progressed to a new level of thinking. It is a gradual quantitative leading to a qualitative leap
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Can we exist in a society with out culture? What were the cultural influences on the development of your theory?
| Piaget | Vygotsky |
|---|---|
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No we cannot exist as a society without culture or history. The way society functions is a result of the cultures within it, and the history of the people from those cultures. Even the most primitive “society” that is completely excluded from the modern world, by choice or otherwise, will have a culture and a history. From page 192 of the reading, “Piaget’s argument…is not against the indispensable historical and social content that Vyogtsky posits. Rather, Piaget’s argument is against the consuming influence of contingent history in the construction of knowledge” (Glassman, 1994). It is not that culture or history would not have an impact on the way in which a person develops, it is not the focal point. The way in which a child develops can be based on the processes of accommodating and assimilating information based on where they are within the 4 stages. |
Culture and history are impact development, and may be considered the starting point for development. They are necessary components for the development of thinking but they are not sufficient in and of themselves. Genetics also play a role. Vygotsky argues that all humans have an invariant ontogeny of thinking, but the functions of thinking, such as verbal patterns, remain the same regardless of the culture of the individual. As culture and history develops, so does the ability to think. It can be broken down into the following:
If our history was any different, one in which the species did not develop past a certain point, the rest would not have occurred. Thus, history and culture are the starting point for development. It is impossible to understand the function of thinking without understanding how culture has impacted the content of thought. Vygotsky's theory was highly affected by the Marxist world view at his time |
Do you believe in person-centred learning?
| Piaget | Vygotsky |
|---|---|
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Piaget’s entire focus was on how the child develops and expands their knowledge based, which would infer that the learning should be person centered. |
Vygotsky would support learning through collaboration and scaffolding. A novice learner is not developmentally incapable, according to Vygotsky, but rather in need of encouragement and support. Through interaction, in the form of scaffolding, knowledge is constructed. Vygotsky might say that learning is the result of person-to-person collaboration. Vygotsky would say we CAN NOT exist as a society without culture and history. Culture and history mould us because of our social interactions with older members of our family and society. Human development needs to look back at its history to learn and change. Vygotsky believed that culture “improves” psychological functions. Since Vygotsky promotes such a social interactive theory, I would say he probably is not a big fan of person-centered learning. He believed that we learn from others as a result of our interaction with them. |
Overview of Theoretical Similarities
Both Piaget and Vygotsky are stage theorists( pg.199): Piaget with his four stages, Vygotsky with his ideas of syncretic and complexive thinking stages.
Both theorists argue that historical considerations should be taken into account, and that a thorough understanding of historical antecedents of development contributes to understanding and analyzing developmental change.
Both theorists claim that intervention can influence development (p.205).
Both believe that the development of thinking involves transformation of old knowledge structures not creation of new knowledge structure that displace the old ones
They also agree there are two lines of development that continuously interact with each other: 1- The natural law development 2- The dynamic impact of social/culture development