Course talk:FMST/4
ANNOUNCEMENT (PEER EVALUATION)
In order to receive a fair individual mark from peer evaluation, please write down your names under the specific section(s) to let other group members know what you have done in our group position paper.
1. Wrote a part in our paper, specifically the section you signed up for yourself.
NAMES...Lauren, Liana, Melody, Hedy, Mavis, Jessica, Eric, Mahzad, Michael, Teresa
2. Contributed ideas for other sections or for your partner.
NAMES...Lauren, Melody, Hedy, Mavis, Eric, Jessica, Michael, Teresa
3. Helped organize the wiki page.
a) Did you use a different color to make your writing distinguishable from others'?
NAMES...Lauren, Liana, Melody, Hedy, Mavis, Eric, Teresa
b) Did you use "===Someone Speaking===" to make your comments clear for others to see?
NAMES...Lauren, Liana, Melody, Hedy, Mavis, Jessica, Eric, Mahzad, Teresa
c) Created the format of the main page and discussion page, including uploading image and articles, writing headlines such as "COUNTDOWN", "ANNOUNCEMENT", "Five Sections of Group Work", "References", "Someone Speaking" and providing useful editing links.
NAMES...Hedy
4. Contacted group members via e-mail when they were having difficulty with wiki page, could not log in or where new to group.
NAMES...Lauren,Melody
5. Contacted group members via vista mails to help organize the group work.
NAMES...Hedy, Mavis, Melody, Michael, Teresa
6. Help give clarifications and suggestions to approaching other sections other than own.
NAMES... Mavis
7. Contacted Dr. Hannah to ask questions related to our group work.
NAMES...Hedy(to confirm the final list of group members, to ask how to sumbit the final work and peer evalution, to ask about the paper length), Mavis (ask regarding group members), Melody (privacy issues with our page, and other wiki pages)
8. Edited your own work or helped edit other section(s) before handing it in.
NAMES...Melody(own work), Teresa (own work), Michael (own work and full paper), Hedy(own work,and put the final work in a word file to check and correct spelling mistakes), Jessica (own work, and combined my writing and eric's writing to be cohesive), Eric(own work)
FULL NAMES
If your full name does not contain your English name, please write down your full name so that it will be easier for others to do peer evaluation for you.
| Liana | Szeto |
| Lauren | ___ |
| Melody | -Saari |
| Hedy | -Tongxu Wang |
| Eric | -Jinhyung Cho |
| Jessica J | ___ |
| Teresa | Lambert |
| Michael | Michael Smith |
| Mavis | ___ |
| Mahzad | ___ |
Group Members (and Signatures)
Section 1: Liana(Lszeto), Lauren (Lholditch)
Section 2: Melody(Msaari), Hedy(Twang)
Section 3: Eric(Jcho), Jessica(Jjohnson)
Section 4: Teresa Lambert(Tlambert), Michael Smith(Msmith)
Section 5: Mavis(Mchan), Mahzad Mousavi Fard
Melody Speaking
Hi Everyone, I'm not sure if we can see who wrote what here, so why don't we use our initials at the end of everything. That way we can see who is writing what etc. I am Melody Saari, and will go by ms. To answer the question above, I'm good with taking any one of 5 parts. But if we have to choose, then I suppose I wouldn't mind doing the research part on this issue. However, I think that it might be useful for all of us to take part in this section intially, as to better comprehend our issue and be able to answer the other sections correctly. I think once we get the ball rolling on this one it should come together rather quickly. Ok, that's my 2 cents for now. :) ms
Melody Speaking
Ok great! I collected 3 articles so far, but have only very briefly looked at them. I will try to figure out how to post the pdf on wiki (if it is possible) so that other can read them. Alright, so far we have myself, you (Brittany), Lauren, and Hedy on in our wiki group. Hopefully the others will find their way here soon and we can start collaborating on what we need to do. I'm just at work right now so I can't be working on this too much. But by tomorrow I will either post the links to those papers, or else give a few lines of summary for each one. MS
Hedy Speaking
Hey girls, seems like our group has the most group members involved so far! That's great! Hope others will be here soon. I am Hedy Wang and I will go by hw. -hw-
Hi it's Hedy again. Or maybe we can use the last second tab above for signature? It will give us red signature at the end of our text so it's easier to tell who wrote what and where they stopped? Do you like it this way? I can go by either way. It's your call. :) --Twang 00:37, 16 October 2008 (UTC)
Also if you click on "Recent changes" under "Main Page" on the left side of this page, you can see all the recent changes on UBC wiki. There is "diff" and "hist" at the beginning of each item. By clicking them, you can see the differences and histories of each page before or after being changed. By checking the recent changes, you won't miss any change of our group page. :) --Twang 00:37, 16 October 2008 (UTC)
Lauren Speaking
Ok so I am finally on the write page after tying to figure this stuff out...I am also good with sectioning off the different parts just let me know what I can do to help..I too will also do some research but unfortunately not very much is going to get done until this weekend! Happy searching everybody.(Lauren, LH).--Lholditch 04:39, 16 October 2008 (UTC)
Melody Speaking
Hello again, I am fine with signatures as well. --Msaari 19:50, 16 October 2008 (UTC)
Ok, I can't seem to figure just yet how or if we can attach pdf's or word documents as a link here, so if anyone would like to view the articles I have found so far, then email me and I will send them to you. mgsaari@msn.com --Msaari 20:10, 16 October 2008 (UTC)
Nancy Speaking
Save all the articles for the project in a folder~ Also, I think it's a good idea for us to use different color fonts, might make our discussion board a little bit easier to read.
The only thing that worries me about splitting up the work is that a lot of it is overlapped and one group may be doing a few of the first steps in order to complete their task. We may want to consider doing each part together and getting it done faster together and covering more together. Especially for step #4 because a group brainstorm of recommendations would probably be more effective. Either way, we need to figure out how to share the articles that we find or even to just summarize what the article is and post it on here. How do you guys want to do this project? Split the work or do it together?
- Important!!! SAVE THE ARTICLES BECAUSE WE'RE GOING TO NEED TO CITE*** just a reminder~
Nancy Deng
Melody Speaking
Sounds good Nancy, I put my name under the research part as I have already started this. Although we should focus mainly on the sections that we want to work on, I would like to have the freedom of also working some of the other topics if I think I can add something to it. Is that alright with everyone? I just don't want us to feel as though we can 'only' work on our appointed section. As well, I think that in the last week or so before this is due, we should all review our whole position paper to make sure we are all happy with what we see. Sound good? --Msaari 23:56, 16 October 2008 (UTC)
Hedy Speaking
Hey girls, so now we have nine members here: Melody,Brittney,Lauren, Nancy, Mavis, Jessis, Eric, Liana and me(Hedy). That's great! :) So I just added my name next to Melody's. And I agree with Melody that each of us should focus on one topic but feel free of also working on other topics in order to contribute more to our group work.--Twang 01:54, 17 October 2008 (UTC)
I found this page very helpful. Check it out! =D http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Editing --Twang 02:06, 17 October 2008 (UTC)
Mavis Speaking
Hey everyone, sorry for the late posting due to papers and midterms. Anyway, my name is Mavis Chan and i will go by the initial of MC. Very excited to work with such a bright group and i am sure that it would be a great paper. Anyway, i have chose to work on the limitations because during the summer i took an ethics course. I have written papers regarding underage consent to medical procedures and i feel that i can bring some interesting points to the table. So i would like to handle the writing regarding ethical consent for underage individuals to undergo transgenders surgery. In addition, I understand that we have 2 people assign to each section. However, should we further break it down into subsections so that it is easier for each person to write about a specific topic (~1/2 pg)and than collaborate the first draft to see how it flows as a whole. For example, Melody & Hedy are in charge of the research; but we can break the research down into medical and psychological reviews where each person takes charge of one sector. Another example i came up with was for the limitations section which i have signed up for. Maybe we can break it down into underage consent and plausibility and general restraints of policy. But anyway, that is just a general idea, just seeing if everyone would like to do that. Let me know and really do look forward to working with you guys again. --Mchan 04:58, 17 October 2008 (UTC)
Melody Speaking
Hi everyone, I hope you don't mind, but I moved the two comments below from our main page, to this one. That way we can keep our project related stuff on the main page, and use this one for discussions. Sound good? --Msaari 20:20, 17 October 2008 (UTC)
Hedy Speaking
Hi Melody, thanks for moving the comment. I am fine with it. :) --Twang 01:26, 18 October 2008 (UTC)
Lauren Speaking
Hi All,
Do we want to break this project up by group members or are we all going to do research in all points 1-5?? Also is this where we are supposed to be posting? What sort of stuff should we be posting?? Does anybody know how to change text colour?
Lauren
Hedy Speaking
Hi Lauren,
This page will give you all the color you want to use for your text.
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wiki_color_formatting_help
Hedy--Twang 07:03, 15 October 2008 (UTC)
Eric Speaking
Dear all
Sorry for the late message. My name is Eric Cho(Jinhyung). I had some problems with dealing with this wiki. (Does anyone know how to change text color?) And, is it right to write comments at the end?
As for our project, I thought it was better to break down all the work; we can break down research and thus have more sense of our topic, right? I think we do all of them together and put all the overlaps, and one of us at the end just can arrange it into final product?
I think we still enough time for this, so why do we first do all 5 of them for each and share ideas by specific date? What's you guys opinion?
Lastly, as for our research, which webpage do you guys use for research? I'm now abroad and having problem with UBC VPN. Do you know any scholar webpage?
Thank you all!
--Jcho 04:47, 18 October 2008 (UTC)
Melody Speaking
Hi Eric, glad you made it here. I think the group consensus so far (others feel free to correct me if you disagree) is to have 2 people working on one of 5 sections of this paper. Once we have gathered enough information, and begin to write the actual text, then it would make sense for all of us to feel free to write modify ideas on the wiki site on all parts as we see fit. Then before submitting we will have to all agree that non of us wishes to make any final changes to it. How does that sound? Read the dialogue above and this will all make sense. As well above, Hedy posted a link that explains how to change text colour. We have agreed to keep the same text colour each time we write as to know who contributes what. As for scholar webpages, I have found most of my articles using the UBC VNP because I also live outside of Vancouver, but other than that and the occasional google research article, that's all I can find. I have even been thinking of hitting up the local library to see what I can find. My suggestion is to try to solve your VNP connection problem and if that is absolutely impossible, then look for other sources. Most scholar webpages charge you to access their articles....and it's not cheap! About $30/article!!!!! Let me know your thoughts :) --Msaari 06:02, 18 October 2008 (UTC)
Nancy Speaking
I signed up for the limitations as well along with you Mavis, I'm taking a research methods class for social sciences and I'm a psych major so I've got some background in the ethics and limitations for studies/experiments.
Eric, you gotta get the VPN system to work otherwise you won't be able to access the same things that we do. There are instructions on the websites to get it to work, there are good picture diagrams to show you step by step. http://www.library.ubc.ca/home/proxyinfo/#VPN Just find your computer system and click on the link from there.
I like the idea of having the research related things on the main page. It's much more organized this way.
Nancy Deng
Eric Speaking
Dear Msaari & Nancy
Thank you for your message. I felt it was very important to read you guys messages first! :) So now I get some sense of what is going on now.
And it was really weird that the new laptop that I use now won't allow UBCVPN to be set up; I think Korean wireless system has some clash with that. However, luckily, I had old laptop that I installed UBCVPN earlier so I can access the articles that posted on the webpage!
Can I sign up for [3. A statement of the political "risks" as you see them]? I major in Political Science and would love to delve into political matters related to our issue! If possible, I would also take time to think of [4.recommendation].
Thus, I have last questions here. I read all you guys' messages. But, shouldn't our work based upon the same articles or resources? I mean, when I look for political "risks", should I find or point out political matters related to the articles that posted by Melody or Hedy? Or can I find my own political articles related to our issue? (If I find the articles, should I post them on the main web, just like others did? Or leave brief summary here(discussion)?)
Sorry for my confusion; I hope I can get more sense of our work and I would greatly appreciate if you can clearify my understanding!
--Jcho 14:01, 19 October 2008 (UTC)
Lauren Speaking
Hey sorry guys that I haven't really been around but I have been sick and well then I couldn't access Vista for a day so it was really complicated..glad to see everybody is working really hard on finding articles and what not but just wanted to mention...isn't this page getting a little confusing?? I logged in here and didn't know where to start does anybody know how we could possibly make this page a little more organized/understandable...i wish i had a suggestion but i am so techno challenged..thanks.--Lholditch 19:49, 19 October 2008 (UTC)
Liana Speaking
Hey everyone, sorry it took me so long to get here. My name is Liana Szeto and I guess I'll go by LS. I agree with you Lauren, this page is getting a bit confusing. Perhaps everyone can stick with one font colour for all their posts? Just an idea. I think it's a good idea to split up the different sections. Maybe those people would write up that part of the report they are assigned to? We can all contribute ideas to all parts but when it comes to the hard copy, everyone just writes for their assigned part. Then we can all edit the final report. I added my name for that statement of the problem.--Lszeto 03:13, 20 October 2008 (UTC)
Melody Speaking
Nice! Good job guys! I LOVE the way our wiki page is looking!!!!!!!! Who made the text boxes and put the pictures in? Anyway, our project is going to be awsome!
Eric, the person responsible for taking our wiki page to the next level (Amanda? Hedy?) has provided links on our mainpage to the three articles I found. I am posting the article summaries in order to give people in the other sections an overview of the research that has been done so far, so that they can begin to formulate their sections (i.e. our introduction, suggests, recommendations, ethics). So please do not hesitate to use what is written on our main page to help you write your section. Hedy and I will be working on the research part, but feel free to share other research articles if you come across them! I have yet to find an article that speaks about the issue of age at which individuals should undergo SRS, but will try to find one in the next couple of days. --Msaari 14:52, 20 October 2008 (UTC)
Hedy Speaking
Hey partner Melody, I am so glad that you love the changes that I just made to our group page. =D Yes I attached the articles you sent me.
Hedy Speaking
Hey guys, I just did some formatting changes to our main page and discussion page to make our work look more clear. On the main page, I also uploaded an image that I downloaded from internet and attached the three articles that I asked from Melody. And if you come across any useful links that will help edit our paper, please add the link to the next section. So far I have been using the four useful techniques that I post below. Check it out! :)--Twang 15:28, 20 October 2008 (UTC)
Mavis Speaking
Hey Nancy, i am going to prep a draft of the parental consent/legal age of consent and incorporate the information regarding legal age of autonomy from the Canadian government over this weekend. I will probably have 1/2pg-1pg single space done by mid-next week. I was hoping that maybe you can do a little research about what MSP covers in terms of surgical procedures (i.e. they don't cover dental, cosmetic surgery etc...). Also, about the possible plausibility of the young age transgenders surgery policy going through by the Canadian government (in this case, a little bit of research from other countries that have similar legal rights as Canada must be looked into). I think if we got these sectors covered, it will make a strong argument. Anyway, let me know how that sounds to you.
In terms of Hedy and Melody looking into general age of surgery, try going onto StatsCan for more statistical data and support. As for Eric's question about relevancy of paper, as long as we have a common theme to the topic, than research paper are just resources to how we back up our argument. I was hoping that the Melody and Hedy can get a little overview to what they would cover in their section and also have the statement of problem group have an overview to what they will write about by next week. I think this would provide a clearer idea for where we are heading as a group.
Melody Speaking
Hi Mavis, I will look into StatsCan for the statistical data as per your recommendation. Could you please clarify what you mean by "and also have the statement of problem group have an overview to what they will write about next week"? The articles I have found so far do not speak of the specific issue of age at which SDS should be considered, but I am aiming to have Hedy's and my section related to specifically that. So, feel free to gather general ideas about the issue from the articles I have posted so far, but be assured that our section will eventually summarize the literature that has been covered on SDS before puberty. Does that answer your question? Let me know:) --Msaari 18:54, 20 October 2008 (UTC)
Hedy Speaking
Hey Mavis, I looked up StatCan but was not able to find anything valuable. I tried to search words like "surgery" or "transgender" but did not find any stats relevant to our paper. Any suggestions? --Twang 15:31, 22 October 2008 (UTC)
Jessica J Speaking
Hi everyone. Okay this is my third post attempt, but I think I've finally gotten it down. I'm sorry it took me a little bit to get on this, but I am very excited about it! I signed up for political risks. Eric my email is j.mm.johnson@hotmail.com just in case you wanted to quickly contact me for our section.
Are most people in the group working on their section pretty independently and then posting their parts when they get a first draft down, our are we planning to keep each other in the loop more with our resources?
Hedy Speaking
Hey guys, I just made some changes to this page. I made the first section looks like someone is replying someone else. I think in this way you can easily see who is responding to who's post. --Twang 15:56, 22 October 2008 (UTC)
Mavis Speaking
Hey Hedy & Melody, i will take a look at other sources this weekend and try to come up with some statistics if possible regarding transgender surgery. But in the mean time, why not look in the chapter of text where it talks about transgender surgery. I am sure they have to reference it to somewhere, so you can probably search from there. Secondly, i was hoping that we can have a draft of the problem of statement by next mid-week or a generation of what problems we will address so that people can get going on their sections. Thus, this is the reason to why i want to ask for the literature review section (which is a research on previous suports) to be done asap, so it gives us an idea of what is out there and what isn't. For what i understand so far, you guys are going to get statistical support to back up the general age of transgender surgery. How about also, looking at cross-cultural data. In addition, research about the medical concerns and psychological concerns that one might have about the surgery. Lastly, take a look at the cultural and society view of transgender surgery in general in Canada. If we cover these topics, we should have build a strong foundation for stating what problems we want to look at. But i do highly suggest looking at reference source from the text. Also, try using pubmed and searching key words, they will give good articles (remember to link to vpn to access full paper directly from the pubmed site).
Mavis Speaking
Hey guys, I am done my section on limitations (i have addressed the issue on parental consent and age limitation). I was wondering if you would like me to post it up or wait until everyone has the other section? Let me know, also, Nancy, please read my previous posting about the MSP topics etc... which is still missing from the limitation section.
Melody Speaking
Hi Mavis, go ahead and post your section on limitations, it will help us on stay in touch with one another's sections if we know what everyone else is writing. Lauren, as Hedy said, you will see that we went ahead and sort of chose sections already, so feel free to put your name beside one that isn't already taken. If you are unhappy with the remaining sections, then let us know and you can work on the area you feel most comfortable doing. Once we get the bulk of the information down, then we will be all be working on it together (editing etc) so your section isn't going to ONLY be up to you. So no worries, we still have a month before its due, and I'm quite busy this week so I'm hoping others will be able to work on their sections even if I don't put up more research until the weekend. Sound good?
Hedy Speaking
That's great, Mavis. Why not put your work on the main page under your section? As Melody says, it will help others see what have been done. Also I think looking up the references in our textbook is really a brilliant idea. Thanks! I will definitely take a look at them.
Lauren Speaking
Can somebody please delegate to me...I am so lost when it comes to this page...I have been researching like we all said we should but is there something else that I should be doing? Is there something that somebody isn't already doing???--Lholditch 04:51, 23 October 2008 (UTC)
Hedy Speaking
Hi Lauren, if you click on "Group members and signatures" on the top of this page, you will see that there are two spots left in section 1 and section 4 for you and Brittney. You may choose either one of them and be responsible for your section but also feel free to add information in other sections as well. Let me know if you are still confused about anything else. Good luck.--Twang 05:54, 23 October 2008 (UTC)
Eric Speaking
Hey, guys. Sorry for the late update. I've been in midterms and about half in my research. I was wondering is there specific date we are supposed to post our research information on?
I'm thinking of finishing the research by the following weekend, but please let me know if it is too late. To Jessica, it is pleasure to meet you and I would love to share with you many information! My e-mail is eric_jin27@hotmail.com. I know political risk is quite difficult to approach since Canada seemed quite and "already" liberal on that issue, unlike the US! I'm still looking for more "qualitative" information and hope that I can still finish them this week! Thanks! --Jcho 09:41, 27 October 2008 (UTC)
PROBLEM : I recognize that even with my signature, my writing is now overlapped with Hedy's. Should I leave something at the beginning of my writing? I'm not sure how I can put like.. "Eric speaking" at the beginning. Sorry, Hedy! :) --Jcho 10:16, 27 October 2008 (UTC)
Hedy Speaking
haha Dont worry Eric. I have fixed it. Next time if you want to write something, you can put "===Eric Speaking===" on top of your writing. If you want to reply someone else, under this person's writing, you put "====Eric Speaking====" on top of your writing. It is just the number of "=" that decides all this.
Mavis Speaking
Hey Melody, I understand that the product is a collaborative group work, so don't worry, i have no intention of not allowing others to edit or editing other sections myself. I have posted the finished section on the main page. However, i still have to work on the references for some of the common laws that i used. Give me some time and i will be constantly revising it too in the mean time.
Melody Speaking
Hi All, hope everyone is doing well. As you will see I added some web resources on our main page, as well as some notes I gathered from doing research myself, as well as my own thoughts about this issue. I apologize because I have yet to find specifics on the actual age at which a person can undergo this procedure. I will keep working on it. Not to worry though, I'm well aware that of the fact that the research section forms the basis of other sections and will keep working on the stats. Please read what I wrote on our front page under 'notes'. This should give you an idea of where to start off. Also, in case people are wondering, this project is due Nov 21st so it's all good. Ciao!
Hedy Speaking
Hey guys, I hope you all had a great Halloween weekend! =D
As you can see, I just added some textbook research information on the main page. Both Melody and I found it harder than we thought about finding the actual age at which SRS should be done. We will keep looking up for it. So far I think Melody and I have reached an agreement that pre-puberty may not be a good time for SRS. What are your thoughts on this?
Mavis Speaking
Hey Hedy, just wondering why pre-puberty may not be a good time for SRS? I will see if i can find anything on earliest age of legal SRS in other western countries. Anyway, let me know if there is anything else that needs to be done.
Hedy Speaking
Hi Mavis, have you read my "short summary" on the main page? At this moment, based on Melody's and my literature research, I assume that pre-puberty is not the best time for SRS. Since this is a position paper and we "owns" the company, perhaps we can establish our own position, which is "to say NO to SRS before puberty"? However, I have not written a position paper before so I am not quite sure how it should look like. I will keep looking up for stats as well. Cheers!
Melody Speaking
Hi Hedy, actually the opposite is true with my position. I hope I didn't mislead anyone with the notes I have written so far. I will double check just to make sure:)
To clarify for everyone, I believe that pre-pubertal SRS may actually be more beneficial for adolescents who are truly suffering from gender dysphoria. If the decision comes down an adolescent being so unhappy with themselves and their lives because they truly hate who they are, and believe they would be able to have a normal life as a member of the other gender, and if they are likely to commit suicide or harm themselves in other ways, then this should be an option for them. Regardless of whether we agree with our child's behaviour or not, the most important thing parents need to do is accept them for who they are. With that said, the dangers of this therapy may be more traumatic for pre-pubertal adolescents and so I would suggest a modification in the criteria to be met in order to qualify for such a surgery. 1) more extensive education on surgery risks, success rates, failure rates, psychological and emotional consequences, etc etc. 2) parental consent is imperative as it would indicate communication between child and parents and the willingness of parents to accept their child after such a surgery. 3) a longer period of time of living as a member of the other gender while frequently re-assessed by a psychiatrist 4) perhaps meeting with individuals who have undergone such a surgery and being able to ask them questions about their adjustment. In a nutshell, more precautions should be taken to minimize the potential psychological effects of these adolescents, but it should be an option for them.
Hedy Speaking
Hey Melody, I just re-read everything you wrote on the main page and I totally see your position of preferring SRS before puberty. Only a small part of your summary,
"Adolescenthood is a very controversial time for many who lack a clear personal identity, and only in adulthood are individuals more comfortable with who they are, therefore, this may not be a good time to have drastic and mostly irreversible procedures done. "
that misled me a little. But as I rethink of all the literature research we found so far, I decide to place my position on your side as well. I think those four modifications in the criteria you proposed are brilliant. Since there are a number of medical and psychological postoperative consequences around SRS, I think in our paper we need to emphasize the importance of these criteria to guarantee the well-being of postoperative transsexuals.
Melody Speaking
Hi Hedy, you are right, I did put that. Those are previous notes I had written and no longer correspond to my current beliefs. Thanks for pointing it out. I will delete them so that when the rest of the members join our group they will not be confused. :)
Hedy Speaking
That's great. Thanks, Melody! :)
Mavis Speaking
Hey Melody & Hedy, I have read the above statements and on the front page, i have stated that trans-gender surgery should be done before puberty. As for a position paper, just keep in mind that in order to make a sound argument, we have to also mention and talk about the opposite view and how it is less supportive and conclusive than our view. Thus, I think that Melody's point about "lack of clear personality", should be mentioned and argued against. For example, may start off with, research indicated that "Adolescent etc.....", however, this can not be generalized for the whole population because..... Anyway, let me know if that helped.
Hedy Speaking
Hi Mavis, I totally agree with you! Melody and I will reflect your idea in our section. :)
Hedy Speaking
Hey guys, I also put Brittney, Mahzad and Nancy under the "Agree" because they said so in their vista mails. So far we have eight members on the pro side. Seems great! =D
Eric Speaking
Dear Jessica
I've discussed about the clash about the values in Canada in regards to the transsexual surgery and would delve into research to add more info. and argument about that. Then, I'll discuss about how it would lead to political risk that the surgery might take.
I'm just wondering what what context of the "political risk" you are in and thus we can determine if we have to divide our part into two sections? (Ex. Mines are about values..)
IMPORTANT: My discussion so far may seem a bit "stereotypical", although I do not have any intention to generalize OR offend particular nation. It was just based on the my memory that I often read many Asian nations including Chinese opposed the gender reassignment from the text; it could be due to the difference in cultural values? But, don't hesitate to correct or comment it if you have any opinions. --Jcho 14:43, 5 November 2008 (UTC)
Jessica Speaking
Hey Eric, I was working in a somewhat values centered approach to, but I can change that. I think I'll start to tie in the political risks as they arise with the issues of taxing, the whole issue of whether the general public can understand the "cosmetic vs medical" surgery issue that some people are talking about, and whether people will accept their dollars going towards this. Also I was reading something that was talking about the fact that surgery is just one step for transgendered people, and they need additional support. Especially with additional support, that would be adding tons of resources to this single issue, and lobbyists of other issues may not appreciate their issues being overlooked for this one, especially when many people are so morally opposed to it. I actually have not forumlated a lot of what I'm saying, I'm still in research mode, trying to figure out what I would like to focus on, but I feel like money, and pressure from lobbyists is something I am interested in, because pressure from lobbyists could really effect decision making in indirect ways.
Melody Speaking
Hi Everyone, Please see our main page, I added a NEW research article on why SRS is more BENEFICIAL for adolescents than for adults. This should give us a lot to go on. As well, I totally agree with you Mavis about research on the opposite view. I have such an article that I will post hopefully tonight;)
Melody Speaking
Hi Hedy, by next week I would like to shorten our section so that we are stating the main points of each research article. I will gather more articles and post them in the meantime, but then would like to make our section into just one 'research' section. For example, we could have 2 sections. One would be for the research alluding to supportive evidence for SRS, and the second would be for research alluding to evidence against SRS. Each of these I would like to have as 1 large paragraph for each. For example, we could put, (bradbeir, 1981) found evidence for ______, which is similar to (Goldbergs, 2001) finding related to _____. Know what I'm saying? It would pretty much be like a miniature research paper. Except only 2 paragraphs long. So, I think that we should aim to have around 5 articles supporting, and 5 articles not supporting such a procedure. Let me know what you think? Also, we can use the same format for the textbook and website research, although because a lot of that is 'description' based, I think we should omit that and perhaps those introducing our topic might utilize this information. Ok, let me know if this makes sense, I've had a long day. Ciao!
Hedy Speaking
Great idea, Melody! Which paragraph would you like to write about? Since I found about 5 literature sources in the textbook research about negative outcomes of SRS (medically and psychologically) so maybe I can write the paragraph against SRS (the second para.)? Another question is how long do you think we should write for our section? I remember Dr. Hannah said he preferred concise 1000 words. So maybe we can write 200-400 words? Should we ask other group members?
Melody Speaking
Hi Hedy, actually that's great that you want to focus on the research not in favor of SRS, because I'd prefer to do the benefits anyway!! Ya, I would say that 200-400 would be about right. Why don't we write our paragraphs first, and then once our groups gets on to the final editing, then we can all edit length etc. I finally found a good database that has relevant articles for this paper so I will try to have the final research done by this weekend on the positives, but will send you any research on the negatives if I find any good one's as well. Ok, have a good day, talk to you later.
Also-Welcome Mahzad! I just saw you joined on the front page. I think that there is still a section that needs to be filled (Our recommendation), so you would be working with Jessica on that. Feel free to put your name there, or let us know if you have interest in a different section that you feel you would be be able to contribute to. Cheers!
Hedy Speaking
That's perfect, Melody! But is it okay if I finish my paragraph early next week(next Tues or Wed)? I have a big assignment for my other online course due 6pm this Sunday. I will jump into my paragraph after I sumbit this assignment. :) Oh yes please send me anything on the negatives if you find any. Thanks so much! TTYL. Have a nice day! =D
Liana Speaking
Hey Lauren, I will be working on my part tonight after work and will try to post it tonight, or tomorrow at latest! Hope that's ok :) (and I hope I posted this correctly, I'm not too good with this html stuff)
Teresa Speaking
Hi everyone. I am so sorry that I have taken so long to get on board with this. I was really confused about what was going on, but I think I have started to figure it out a little. Jessie, I can help you with section 4. Please let me know what I can do and I will get on it right away. Again I am so sorry it has taken so long.
Teresa
Melody Speaking
Hi Hedy, no worries at all! I'm still trying to catch up on readings myself :) As well, welcome Teresa.
Liana Speaking
I posted up a draft for our statement. I'm not exactly sure if we are saying SRS before puberty is the best method or if it should be an option available. I chose the latter but it can be edited as needed. Feel free to edit it or share more ideas. --Lszeto 07:02, 10 November 2008 (UTC)
Lauren Speaking
Hey Liana, I have gone through our statement draft and edited it. Please let me know what you think and if i understood/got everything correctly! I still have your original draft saved, plus this new one in word so please make any changes to this new one if you feel they are necessary. Sorry for the delay I couldn't access Vista over the weekend..--Lholditch 06:38, 15 November 2008 (UTC)
Melody Speaking
Hi Everyone, I put up another supporting argument that Hedy provided me with. Her and I have been collaborating on how to formulate our sections, and have come up with a great plan. By next week will everyone have everything ready for everyone to start editing the whole paper? It looks like we have almost everything. ALSO-I just copied our document into a word document to check for word count, and it seems as though we are up to roughly 2850 words. This means that we need to put our paper down by more than half. Just something to keep in mind for the next week and a half. Cheers!
Mavis Speaking
Hey Mahzad, I was hoping that maybe you can do a little research about what MSP covers in terms of surgical procedures (i.e. they don't cover dental, cosmetic surgery etc...), since i haven't gotten to that part yet. Also, about the possible plausibility of the young age transgenders surgery policy going through by the Canadian government (in this case, a little bit of research from other countries that have similar legal rights as Canada must be looked into). I think if we got these sectors covered, it will make a strong argument. Anyway, let me know how that sounds to you.
Melody Speaking
Hi Lauren and Liana,I was wondering if we still need the text on our main page related to Agree and Disagree. I was wondering if we could erase that soon so we can get an idea of how long our paper is. Let us know :)
Lauren Speaking
It has been deleted--Lholditch 06:40, 15 November 2008 (UTC)
Melody Speaking
Hi Hedy, I shortened my section, although we still need to put ours together. Also, I want to include the two media resources into the support section, but I haven't decided how I want to word that yet. Any suggestions?
Hedy Speaking
Hey Melody, excellent job on shortening your paragraph! =D But I noticed that our section is still a little bit long. Although I really dont think any of our sentences should be cut, perhaps we need to cut some of them when our group make the final edit together in order to keep the paper around only 1000 words. :( 1000 words is hard!
Those two media resources are great examples but as I re-read them, I realized that perhaps we dont need to include the first one, Sarah-now-Alex, into our section? Because Sarah is now 17 and she has not yet undergone the surgery, it seems that this case does not exactly focus on the key word of our paper: Prepuberty. What are you thought on this resource?
For the second resource, perhaps we can write one sentence or a few sentences to summarize it, such as: Some researchers believe SRS before puberty is the best choice and in order to allow these children to have enough time to make sensible decision about SRS, they use puberty-blocking drugs...
Liana Speaking
Hey Lauren, great job of editing!
Eric Speaking
Dear Jessica
Mines are to be done by tomorrow, as I still have some ideas to post! I thought it would be great if we can divide the section into two: value and politics(ex.lobby). But I'm only wondering if we will need to add any short paragraph that summarizes our two different topics. If not, we can still work separately and review each other's before handing in!
--Jcho 14:05, 18 November 2008 (UTC)
Melody Speaking
Hey Hedy, sorry I wasn't able to shorten my paragraph sooner. My landlords wireless has been down for about a week so the only time I've been able to get online is if i bring my laptop to a wireless café, or when I'm at work (like now :) ) I shortened it now...although I still don't feel as though our section is that strong. I want to find more articles that support this issue. I'm going to try to find at least one more tonight. I deleted both web resources because I didn't feel that either of them added anything to our position.
Hedy Speaking
Hey Melody, no worries! :) We are almost there! I think for five sections in the paper within 1000 words, Dr. Hannah probably does not expect a lot of details. I think as long as we have stated some previous lit research on medical and psychological aspects, we should be fine. =D
Jessica Speaking
Hey Eric, okay I think I'm almost done, so I'll post sometime tonight, or tomorrow, and I don't have a problem summarizing/doing the work to pull our different issues together to make it look pretty/be sensical and have flow
Mavis Speaking
Hey guys, i have read over the overall product so far and i think that we have a strong case. I did some proofreading and editing. However, i do have a question, does Dr. Hannah read the finish product on the wiki page, or do one of us put it into word document and then one of us send it to him? Let me know and if we do need to organize it according to APA and single document, i can give a hand.
Hedy Speaking
Hey Mavis, I just sent a vista mail to Dr. Hannah to include the two questions you mentioned above and added two other questions. Hopefully we will hear from him soon! :) Cheers.
Eric Speaking
Hey guys I wasn't sure by what time shoud we finish up the product. I thought it was friday, right? I'm sure I'll post up my final product, no later than THUR night. I wasn't also sure to if we still can edit parts on friday.
Jessica Speaking
Okay so I posted my part, and yea like I said before when you post your Eric, I can just make it flow a little. --Jcho 16:39, 20 November 2008 (UTC)
Melody Speaking
Hi Everyone, before this page becomes inactive and we cannot add anything else, I just want to say that it was a pleasure working with all of you on this page, and I definitely think that our group was the strongest and most organized. Thank you all for your input on the sections and I'm really glad we were able to do this project together! :)
Editing Techniques and other useful links
Text color
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wiki_color_formatting_help
Upload file
http://wiki.ubc.ca/Special:Upload
Formatting examples
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Wikitext_examples
Check "Recent changes" on UBC wiki
http://wiki.ubc.ca/Special:RecentChanges (Click on "diff" and "hist" at the beginning of each item to see what happens.) --Twang 15:56, 22 October 2008 (UTC)
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